Join us as we dive into her career journey, her strategies for integrating marketing and sales, and her insights on adapting to the dynamic world of digital marketing. Rachel, thank you for joining us today on on the growth engine. Rachel, your your career journey is very impressive and diverse.

Could you could you give us a bit of background information on your career path to date, which has led you to Dimensional?

Sure. So I ended up in financial services a little bit by accident, if I'm honest. I did biomedical science at university and and came to London basically to see if I liked it.

Got into financial services into a high net worth wealth manager and got the bug really. I did my IMC. I really enjoyed dealing with clients, doing the marketing.

And since then, I've been in many different types of financial services organizations, so asset management, but also investment banking, investment consulting, custody banking, and also management consulting.

So That's really varied, isn't it?

It's incredibly varied. So I feel very lucky that even with all of those roles, I've had a financial services angle or a financial services tilt. And I think all of those organizations have had strengths within marketing. They were able to do different things due to their, regulatory, constraints. So certain organizations have been stronger in other areas, and I feel like I've learned something in every single one of them.

Yeah. Yeah. Of course.

And that's stood me in really good stead for my role at Dimensional where I I span the whole of EMEA. So I currently cover all the regions within EMEA. I'm based in our London office.

And while Dimensional are a global organization, and we have a very strong global marketing team. So myself in EMEA, we also have a team in APAC, and our headquarters are in America in Texas.

Right.

We we all work collaboratively together, but equally then you've still got to have the nuance of the region and be able to help develop the business here. So a lot of what we do and what I do in my current role and my team do is take everything that we do globally, but then, you know, adjust it or regionalize it where we need to.

And that could be related to product. It could be related to the end client because we have a lot of different end clients in all the different countries across EMEA.

And it could also be in relation to content. So for example, we have currency considerations, language considerations, etcetera that we would consider over here.

Yeah. Thank you. Just just something that you just said, which I just wanted to pick up on, is that right at the very beginning of your career, you worked for a wealth manager, high net worth individual's wealth manager, and you caught the bug. I can you can you just tell me a little bit about that? I'm just intrigued because you came from a very different background from what you studied at university, and then coming into the space, I'm I'm just intrigued to to explore that.

So I went to university. I didn't really know what I wanted to do.

I was quite envious of friends who were very much like, I'm going to do this career or this career, and I was like, I just like to go to university and get a bit of life experience Yeah.

Which is what I did. And then I really didn't know what role I wanted to do afterwards.

But I went to university in Leeds. London was a big draw. I'd never been to London before. It seemed like, you know, a million miles away from where I was.

So I came down here and- Well, you brought up in Leeds then?

Brought up in Carlisle.

Right. Okay. Yeah. So into Leeds, big change, and then on to London.

Yes. So Leeds was a great place for university.

It was far enough away from home that I was away from home, but easy enough to get back Yeah.

Yeah. For the holidays, etcetera.

So, yeah, I came down here. I was contracting for a little while just to see if it was somewhere I wanted to live.

And, yeah, I I ended up with the role. The company's since been bought by much larger a larger asset manager, but I just really enjoyed it. I like the people that I worked with. I enjoyed dealing with clients. I was doing a lot of marketing at the time, working with our head of marketing.

And while you were in an office environment, which was new for me, you were also out and about setting up events or meeting clients or organizing, you know, client meetings.

Was it the variability of the is that the the word? The variability of the role?

Is that I think so.

And I'm a people person. I like to talk to people Yeah. And I enjoyed that element, which a lot of our portfolio managers were very happy with because they were like, you can you can go talk to people.

Yeah. Yeah. Cool.

And, yeah, I just enjoyed it. And a lot of what I was doing was new that the organization hadn't done it before, so there wasn't a set way of doing something. It was like, figure it out.

So almost carving your own way straight from the outset. That's a kind of baptism of fire in a way, isn't it?

It is a little bit, but I think you either enjoy that or you don't.

Yeah. Yeah. Sink or swim.

Yeah. And if you're you're you're on your own, you're doing a hybrid role with lots of different elements, and there's not always a set. This is how you do this or this is how you do that. We had to figure a lot of that out, and I I quite enjoy that, but, you know, it's not it's not everybody's cup of tea.

No. I think, again, you'd well, you make a good point there about being a people person because really marketing is kind of the study of people, isn't it? You've you've gotta you've gotta work out what makes them tick, and and you've gotta talk to people, and there's a lot of market research in there as well that's understanding. So it's yeah. It's a it's a good observation.

So you're now in Dimensional. You're you've got you mentioned that you've got a a team that's spanning across EMEA, and you're also the the head offices over in Texas.

How can I ask you how you've you've structured your your team at Dimensional?

Absolutely. So as mentioned, we've kind of we've got a global team, so we have a lot of work coming out globally, a lot of global content that we can leverage, which is brilliant. You know, we've got we've got plenty of things that we can utilize here.

I think one of the things we need to think about in region is we we're smaller and we have to wear quite a few different hats. So one of the things that I do think about when I'm structuring the team is what does the business need right now?

My business in region, but also globally as a department, we also have to think about skill sets that fit within our global department.

Okay.

So what does the business need right now and what might it need mid to longer term? And they're not always the same thing, but you you're trying to plan for the future while also meeting the immediate need.

So Of course.

That's really important. So for me, people who can wear multiple hats, who are quite comfortable with change and ambiguity because we're often working on things we've not worked on before. So just figuring out how to get it done, understanding how to navigate a global environment. So working with your global colleagues, which is cross time zone often, and then being able to leverage our global material and our global content for the region. So knowing what our regional needs are while still getting as much juice from the squeeze from our from our global team as well. So I think that's really important, someone who can navigate both of those things.

And then skill set with when we're thinking structurally across the team, it's not just that kind of being able to navigate change. It's understanding the teams you need to work with to get things done. So just like you mentioned, being a people person, marketing interacts with all the teams across the business. And at Dimensional, I mean, in our EMEA office, we're all on one floor. So that interaction is very easy. We're wandering around the floor and talking to people, but marketing is one of the teams I think that interacts most frequently with the majority of the business. So people who can can do that stakeholder management piece is also really important.

Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, talking about working with different parts of the business, obviously, marketing and sales side by side. You looking at your LinkedIn profile earlier this morning, you've consistently kind of bridged the gap between marketing and sales. And sometimes I think in perhaps years gone by, that hasn't always been an easy relationship. I think it's fair to say now marketing and sales are much more cohesive and realize that the way that digital marketing especially is going, that they can actually support each other, but it hasn't always been that way, has it?

No.

I mean, I like to claim I'm only twenty one, but I've clearly got a few more years experience under my belt. When I first started, there were certain organizations, absolutely not all of them, where marketing had started as the one need, and that one need might be graphics or some some of presentation design. Often, the team would be referred to as the graphic department. And I would go in and somebody would ask where the graphics department was, and I'm like, oh, I don't know. You know, who who who is the graphics department? And then my team would be like, that's us. And I'm like, oh Yeah.

Because that's Also called the coloring in department.

The coloring in department, and it's such an old school term, I think. And I don't think it's come from any bad place.

I think it's come from the original need to have one person, and that one person was maybe doing the graphical element.

And then team grows, but the name doesn't disappear.

So I think we're much further along than we we were then. I mean, at Dimensional, as I mentioned, we all sit together. So sales and marketing sit right next to each other. If we want to ask each other anything, we we can just wander over and have that conversation.

So it does lead to a very collaborative environment.

I think the other benefit is we are aligned on our priorities. So, you know, the business priorities are the priorities of the sales team, and that's also the priorities of the marketing team. So that alignment, I think, is very important because we're all pulling in the same direction.

And I feel very strongly that the marketing team will input to business growth as well as the sales team will input to business growth. And if the two teams can work together really well, then they will be greater than the sum of their parts. Yeah. So that's what I think we we are aiming for, and we are a lot more further along that that journey than we were maybe twenty years ago.

The rise of data now within within marketing, marketing, again, is not something that was perhaps there at the beginning of your career. And how how have you kind of evolved with with managing that and utilizing that as a resource that can give that sales intelligence into teams?

The data piece is really interesting, and I think a lot of it has come from the move into more digital marketing. Obviously, digital marketing's been around for a long time, but maybe financial services haven't been at the forefront of some of that digital innovation.

What comes with digital is data.

Data that you can really understand what people are looking at, in what formats, what content is working, what topics, how long people are staying on a page or watching a video. So the data's become really important to get some of that client insight.

And the the the trick is harnessing the marketing data and then being able to join it up with the sales data to get a really good view of what other client experience or a prospect experience because I think both both need to have a good experience with your brand and your organization. And if we can join the dots up between all the data that we've got coming in, and it's not just sales and marketing. You know, there's data coming in from events. There's data coming in from other teams.

And if we can join those dots up, I think it makes you better able to meet your clients where they are because you understand what they're looking at, what they're interested in, and how you can improve that user journey for them.

When you when you started your role at Dimensional, how far along was your was it there? Did it have that? Did you come in and have to set that up? Or?

I think we had elements of it.

So Dimensional has always been a digital first from a marketing perspective, but equally, we're mindful Is that globally, it has been?

Globally, we are digital first, but we've also been mindful that we have a a mixture of clients in the same way everybody likes to digest content differently. So I am always on my mobile phone. I digest content on my mobile or my iPad ideally.

But equally, I like to print off some content if I wanna make notes on it, and I think we have a lot of clients that like to do a bit of both. So I think the important thing is to have really good content that really hits the mark for your clients and their end clients because we we are b to b. So we have the our interactions and then we have to be mindful of our clients' end clients.

Because they're they're more likely sharing that directly with their clients as well.

Absolutely. Yeah. So it's it's two layers of communication.

It's making sure that communication is tailored to that audience, but then also that you can utilize that in many different formats. And I think when I said dimensional is rich in content, we really are rich in content. So then our ability to push that content out into different mediums to package it up into digital and also into formats that may not be as digital if people want to print something off, for example.

I think that's the most important thing when you're when you're thinking about bringing that digital element in is we're still in a world where people digest in different ways, and and you have to cater. You have to cater for all of that.

You mentioned that you're very, very content driven business as a as a dimensional.

Something I've I've often observed, and I'm just intrigued to to see how you how you handle this, is that many organisations, especially within asset management, but I think large organizations in in general, there's been such a drive to produce content, ongoing content, especially for for marketing teams.

Often there's quite a rush and there's a backlog of stuff that's also got to get done.

Do you are you able to take the time and actually look at the effectiveness of that content and then decide actually that's working really well, so we're gonna lean in doing more of that, or this piece isn't doing so well, so can we tweak it to improve? Is there is there any optimization that that happens?

There absolutely is.

I would say we look it's not just the actual, like, topic of the content, although the topic is important. So, many of our teams at Dimensional look at this, because we get data from from many different sources. So there's the element of the type of content. So we find that very timely content, something that's maybe specific to the news, for example, that is out there in the media will get very high traction.

Okay.

But, obviously, it gets very high traction for a certain period of time because it's been driven by the the data in the media at that moment in time. So we have to manage the content. We've got that timely element, but then you've also got more evergreen topics around investing and thought leadership and things that our clients might be concerned about for the longer term, say inflation. So you're managing the some of that more timely content with the more evergreen thought leadership.

On top of that, we look at what formats work. So for example, we know, and this probably won't surprise anybody, that if you put up a two or a three minute video, that will get more traction than a forty five minute webinar.

Right.

Because very few people, and I absolutely am one of these, will if you haven't had time to go to the webinar, we'll then go and spend forty five minute watching the replay. Yeah. But you might spend two or three minutes on a a snippet or a summary or something that kind of distills the content. So I think we have to be mindful of people's time.

People will read an article that's, you know, a five minute read. But if it's gonna take you fifty five minutes, again, then we know that there's a drop off rate there. So it's also about not only the variety of of content topics, it's about the the format of that. So we do have to be mindful of that, and we do track and measure it.

We track and measure the type of content that works well on social media platforms, which is different again. You know, the visual is very important. You know, you've got very limited, you know, shop window within some of the social media platforms. So making sure you've got good visuals, good content.

And I think that's something Dimensional has done really well is we have a really specific brand and some of those visuals that we put out on social or we put out on our website that are kind of graphically display some of the content we've got, I think, very, very strong, and they get very high engagement.

Stand out in a in a crowded space, doesn't it? It's it goes back to that kind of distinctive brand assets, key key thing that you keep building over on time and time again. So that's that's that's good to know. The the format you mentioned about the video format, so as an example, two minute video having a high attraction than a forty five minute webinar. Do you see differences in content types at different stages of the funnel? Can you track in that sense?

It's difficult to track that from a funnel perspective because obviously you're limited to knowledge of whom is on your website.

Sure.

So if it's your open website, yes, you know that people have watched this video and you know they've watched it for this length of time, but you don't know who those individuals are. So linking it to the funnel is more difficult. I think where we we can track, and this is where the data element comes in, is if they're engaging in person. Okay.

And let's be honest, asset management, you know, we're not an ecommerce, you know, company. It's a people business. It's about people interactions and having those meetings and forming relationships. So actually, in person events are really important for us.

One, because we can bring the thought leadership to our clients.

The clients then are in a forum where they can ask questions if there's anything they're unsure of, and you get a two way dialogue as opposed to a one way dialogue on a website where it's our content.

So it's very important to bring that those that in person in through the events.

And we can see the more people attend in person, they're usually more more likely to be a a level of engagement with us where they would would be so further down the funnel in all.

Further down the funnel.

Yeah. Yeah. Do you think the the the funnel is still is that an outdated term? You you you're sort of slightly going further.

I don't think it's outdated because there's there's still a logic in the funnel, you know. Yeah. If you think about the entire world at the top of the funnel and then you've got people that might be interested in what you're doing, you know. So the funnel in theory is still a valid measure. I think the the idea that people only go down a funnel and they go down this route and it's a a linear Yeah. A linear route.

I don't think is the case anymore. And I think this is where your data comes in is that an interaction with your business or your brand or your organization is there's multiple touch points and a lot of those might be marketing touch points initially and then they move through and you've got event touch points and then you you're into your sales touch points. So I think the idea that it's linear, think is I don't think it's true. I think the touch points are multiple.

Yeah. And I also think there are a lot of clients where you may meet them here and they're not ready to engage with you, but further down the line, they might be. And you can call that a funnel or it could just be a point of readiness within their Yeah. Within their own personal journey.

So I mean, the funnel was I think it was developed in something like eighteen sixty or something, but I can't remember the chap's name, but he was a he had a fabulous name, but it was it was invented for as a as a technique to help door to door salespeople become more effective and and think about the questions that they would ask.

So it was developed in in that that in that time and which is years ago.

But it's still it's still I think it's still relevant as a as a framework. I I did a Mark Ritzing course last year, and he still thinks it's relevant. So but he was saying that you have to develop it for your own organization. But I think what you're saying is is when you're starting to map out almost a client journey, it is complicated.

And if you map out all of those touch points, you do have this big ecosystem. And then to your point, you're trying to get more data points from those. I'm intrigued about the data that you can get from in person events. I've seen some some software that that another agency, CleverTouch agency, have got an event data gathering software.

Do you use anything like that for your We we do use multiple pieces of software.

So for example, if you have an in person event, you would have registration. Yeah. So you know who signed up.

You also then know who has attended, who didn't attend, and who you invited, but also you didn't have a response from. So it gives you multiple layers of information.

One, I would say, is your engagement touch point of those that attended. You've also got an engagement touch point of those who wanted to come but couldn't make it on the day. And then you've still got those people who you did invite and maybe the timing was just off or, you know, maybe the topic isn't of interest. So I think you can get multiple multiple pieces of data from that. Yeah. And then also if you're running multiple events, if you've got an organization that's been attending frequently Yeah.

Then that that gives you a picture.

Yes.

We are b to b. Dimensional are a b to b organization, so there are multiple decision makers in every organization. So it's not all about tracking one person, it's tracking about engagement across a business, and I think that's really important.

Yeah.

And I think that's also something where the funnel comes in if you like, is that it's not it's not always engagement with one individual. Yeah. It's not like somebody tracking me across the websites because I've looked at a pair of shoes. Yeah. And then they can track exactly what I'm doing, and then they can track exactly when I buy them. Because I am gonna buy the shoes, let's be honest.

That is much, to me, a much clearer funnel.

Yeah.

Whereas when you're working b to b with multiple touch points in multiple organizations, I think your funnel's a little bit more complex. Yeah. But ultimately, it it's about levels of engagement.

So Yeah. I'm starting to wonder here if if the you seem to very much lean into the complexity.

I'm wondering if this is going back to roots of your degree of where the sort of natural scientist in you of being data driven and I do like a bit of data. Mean I'm very happy Has anyone ever said that before?

I'm very happy when I've got a spreadsheet.

I am.

What I would like to be in a position is where I can take anything that you can collect on a spreadsheet and put it into a different tool where you can analyze the data and pull out the data you want. Often we have and every organization is like this. You buy a technology because it will serve a certain need.

But then trying to get the data out or into position where you can manipulate it and use it in a way that you want can be difficult. Difficult.

And I think often that's not thought about when a technology is built. A technology is built to solve for a a particular problem. It's not then built to be interrogated.

And I'm I'm not a data science by scientists by by any means, but I do think we can do better marketing if we can really assess what data we've got available Yeah. And then use that to to better understand what our clients are doing, what our prospects are doing, and build a better a better experience for everybody that's interacting with our brand. And I do think data can help you do that. Otherwise, you are essentially guessing.

Yeah. Yeah. I think a lot of organizations get their Salesforce, their Pardot, their Marketo and think, great job done, and it's it's kind of the job's only just starting really at that point, isn't it?

Yes. And I've worked for a lot of organizations.

Dimensional already has their CRM system in place and has been evolving it, but I've worked for other organizations where they've been bringing in a new system. Yeah. And this CRM system is gonna solve everything because it's awesome.

And then they bring it in and instead of having the experts build that for them, they bespoke it to look like the CRM system they had previously. And then they don't get the functionality out of it, or it doesn't work as well with their other technology. So I think I think that is one thing is I would say there's often a big push in a lot of organizations to get a better system, to get a better tool, to get better technology. But I think you always need to look at, are you actually using the one you've got to the the best extent that you can?

Is there more that you can do? Are there some function is there some functionality you haven't added in? But also, is there good practice around using it? Because organizations evolve a lot And what you do need is everybody to be consistent in how they're using a technology, and I think that's really important.

And if you're not in a good place there, no, it doesn't matter what tech you bring in Yeah.

You're still gonna have the same issues.

Again, looking at the you're looking at your your LinkedIn profile. Profile. You've done this at a number of different organizations. You've done at k KPMG, Northern Trust, Macquarie Group, now at Dimensional. You must see kind of repeat patterns. I'm I'm I'm intrigued how you how you go in and you start thinking, okay.

I'm now gonna I'm now gonna wrestle this. I'm gonna get my data. I've got a vision of what I want in my head. How how do you launch your your digital marketing strategy from that standing start?

Well, it can be very easy to go in and try and boil the ocean. You go, I want this and I want this and I want this, and you're all over the place, and and it's very difficult. So I would say is focus on a few key pieces of data that you really want, that the business really wants, that will be useful, and try and get those in a good place. I could give you a whole list of things I would like to see, but I might not be able to get there instantaneously. So I think focus on a few key pieces that will move the needle both for yourself, for your sales team, and and for your management team. Get those in a good state, understand how you can join that data up, and then start to add in more insights.

I think it's very it's very easy to look at other organizations and think they have it perfect. I've I've never worked for one where it's it's it's been, you know, pristine and that data movement has been as clean as you would like it. And that is because organizations are dealing with, you know, some legacy tech. They're dealing with regulation.

They're dealing with data that's not clean, maybe data that's been in the system for a long time. So it's not it's not easy to do that, but I think do it in really small steps. Start with a few things that will really move the needle and then do a few more things and then do a few more things, and it will get there eventually. Yeah. But big organ global organizations, you're having to do this globally, and that's that's difficult especially if you're also trying to change behavior with how you use a system as well.

That's again, that's kind of going back to that test and learn methodology in a way, I guess. I keep thinking, again, this is linked back to your university.

I think we're putting too much emphasis on what I learned at university other than beans on toast.

Mine was tuna fish pasta.

Oh, yes. With with mayonnaise.

Oh, no. That would be that.

Really? Okay.

We work in an industry that is very highly regulated.

You've mentioned about different content formats that you're using across social and how they and how they differ for for different types of outputs, different types of formats.

How have you approached the the the challenge of regulation in pushing out content when you're when you're seeking, you know, those data points are vital for you to grab, but there's also pushback often from from the business. How do you navigate those those paths?

That is a good question. I think I mean, here, it's it's about controlling what you can control. We can't control regulation. It's evolving all the time, and technology is evolving all the time.

So we can't there's nothing we can do about that, so we just have to embrace it. And I think one of the things we're thinking about when I'm thinking about Dimensional's content and how you can get that out to a wider audience is you need to work within the constraints that you've got. So I always say that you want to be thinking outside the box, but, like, delivering in the box. So the the box being obviously your regulatory environment.

So, you know, we can go back to me buying shoes. We're we're not an ecommerce business and we can't work in that manner.

However, what we can do is be as creative as we possibly can within the constraints that we have. And I think that's what's important is doing that test and learn pieces, trying a few new things, obviously, within what we're what we're allowed to do and seeing what works and then doing a little bit more of that. And, actually, I think it takes a lot more creativity to work within some of those constraints than maybe it does if you didn't have any.

So I think it's you know, embrace it. It can be frustrating.

I'd be lying if I said, you know, we don't sometimes get frustrated with the things that we can't do, but you do have to look at what you can do.

And we're in an industry where everybody's in the same boat. Yeah. We forget, you know, that we're not the only ones having this challenge and every financial services company, be it asset management or other, has their own challenges.

And then our clients have their own challenges as well. So a lot of our clients are dealing with regulatory change as well. And we have to be mindful of that and still be putting our clients at the forefront of what we're doing to be able to deliver a good experience for them because they're also trying to navigate that change as well.

Do you collaborate with compliance? Do you sort of, you know, roll up your sleeves and say, okay, look, we've got we've got a competitor over here that's doing this, we would like to explore that. Is it is it a is it a mutual kind of working together on this, or is it a we wanna try this and, you know, we get pushback?

Oh, no. Absolutely. It's it's that the collaboration, particularly at Dimensional, is very strong.

I think the question often that we ask is, how could we make this work? This is what we would like to do. How can we make it work?

And that's where we get, you know, that consultation back is like, this is the concern. So can we work around the concern?

Or these are a few options that we think can work within the confines of how we could work.

And that's really important because obviously, marketing can come up with lots and lots of good ideas, but if you can't if you can't implement them Yeah. Then they're not really going to go anywhere. So I think there's also this this this tug between implementation and innovation.

So on one hand, you want people to be implementing because that's how you get things done, but you also need a certain amount of people to be innovating because that's where you think longer term and push the boundaries and think about how you could do things differently.

And you sort of want a happy medium of the two, otherwise, you're you're too you're too far swayed in either direction. And I think if you can have those really active conversations with your legal and compliance team, you can often find solutions, maybe even solutions you haven't thought of.

It's just about giving yourself enough lead time to be able to do that.

Yeah yeah yeah, thank you.

So kind of wrapping up slightly and the dreaded question of looking towards the future.

Again, you've been at the forefront of financial services marketing, worked in a number of different organisations, hot off the press of winning FS4 and marketing marketer of the year last year, congratulations. I'm interested to see how you think that the future of the industry is going around marketing financial services and and how what what your vision looks like for for Dimensional?

So as I mentioned earlier, Dimensional have always been digital first. We we think about things from a digital perspective and the client experience.

We've spent a lot of time recently reworking our website so that not only financial professionals, but also individuals will get a better user experience. And I think that's really important because an individual looking at our website needs different things and is after different information than a financial professional. So we are thinking about that digital experience, also still linking it into where our clients are. So what kind content do they need and when do they need it and how in what format do they need it.

So I think that's really important. We're always working with our clients on a new product. So if they have suggestions or things that they might benefit from, then we will look at products that suit our clients or prospects. But I think longer term, from a marketing perspective, obviously, my goal is to get more data and be able to join that up a little bit more.

So more more marketing data going in there, more sales data, being able to pull out cleaner insights so we can not only just provide a good user experience on our website, but every client and every prospect gets a really great experience of Dimensional as a whole because we know the touch points are multiple. We know it's not just about the brand. It's not just about the individuals. It's not just about the product that we have.

All of it comes together into one client experience.

That experience for an existing client and that exist experience for a new client should be should be tailored and should be as good as it possibly could be. And I do believe data will will play a big part.

I still think there's a big role for AI at some point.

I don't think it's there yet. I think we're like, there's still concerns around where the data comes from. Yeah. If the data's accurate, the security of the system. But I think you know? So I don't think it's in a a place yet, but I do think longer term, AI could play a huge role in being able to streamline certain areas of the business, maybe take some of those administrative pieces away, free up time for people.

But, really, it's it's about pulling as much data as we can get our hands on into a good picture to sort of meet our clients where they are and and give them the best possible dimensional experience.

I just wanna pick up on one point. You mentioned it before, and I I was kicking myself so I didn't I didn't ask you about it then. So it's slightly out of context, but because you mentioned it again, I'm gonna I'm gonna pull out.

You mentioned about gathering insights from the data, and I just wanna talk about that, explore that area, because obviously data gathering on its own sake is there's no point in doing that. Obviously, the whole point is to mine that data in order to gain competitive advantage. So can you expand out on the kind of your process for gathering insights from that data?

I think it depends. This is this is always the chicken and egg question. Right? You can get lots and lots of data as you've said, but unless you can do something with it Yeah. It's relatively useless.

However, what you don't want is so much data that it's giving you an inaccurate picture.

So I think when we're talking about pulling out insights, I think we're talking about themes and trends.

K.

You know, is there certain types of content that gets traction? Is there certain topics that get traction? What what are the consistent trends of the content that is getting viewed the most? So I think that kind of insight is useful. It gives you more thematic view, and also you're not basically making the data tell you what you want the data to tell you because that's also Yeah. An issue. So get the data you can get, pull out general themes and trends and insights.

And then also what that often does is go you go, oh, it'd really helpful if I knew x or it'd be really helpful if I knew y. And then all of a sudden, you've got a new a new area that you might want to look into to add to that picture. Yeah.

So I do think we do need to be careful that, you know, that date is not the be all and end all in the sense of if you don't use it well Yeah.

Or if you've got an outcome that you really want and you're trying to make the data fit, then you're not really getting an insight. No. You're you're making it up. Yeah.

So I think be really specific about what you want to pull out of it, and then you can think about what data would be more useful to supplement that. You know? And and a lot of that comes from just discovery work. You get to a good point and then you're like, oh, I'd really like to add in that layer of information, and then you go and see if you can get that.

Yeah. It's that con I guess what you're what you're doing is that you're you're you're almost constantly improving that ecosystem in a way, aren't you?

You're trying to constantly dive in and uncover that next layer and build out those pieces and I think data ecosystem is a a really good term for it because what I'm not suggesting is that there's, you know if I could get my hands on one piece of data, you know, life would be fabulous.

That's not how it works. It is an ecosystem and and the data tells you different things and you always have to have a mindset of, you know, but what isn't the data telling me? Yeah. What are the parameters of the data, and how is it being collected?

So Yeah. That's a that's a really good point, and I think you sometimes only see what's in front of you, and asking that question of it, I think that's that's a yeah.

So today is really interesting, like me, if you like an Excel spreadsheet, but equally, you need multiple data points and you need to have multiple views, and then you need to take it all with, you know, a pinch of salt with regards to what can it tell me and also what can't it tell me.

Yes.

Yeah. So I think and I think that's really important that you're not you're not interpreting it just because you've got a, you know, a hypothesis in your mind that might be in trying to kind of make the data fit.

You also mentioned AI in in the the kind of vision, seeing where that is and thinking it's not not quite there yet, but it's definitely gonna play a role.

I I guess one of the roles is is helping mine for insights to from multiple data points just to give you a view. Obviously, you'll do that individually as well.

Do you do you keen to hear your views on how you think AI in the role of content creation as well. You you mentioned that you do a lot of content creation at Dimensional, and and there are different types of content between the evergreen and the timely.

Do you see AI playing a role in helping you to get out content quicker for that timely?

Maybe.

At the moment, I don't think we we all know that, you know, the AI tools that are out there at the minute aren't maybe as up to date and that, you know, the data that they've been based on isn't necessarily current. So I think that would be one concern. But I think even if you could get to the point where you had an AI tool that could write you the basis of content Yeah. You know, you'd have to you have to interrogate the tool as well. You know, you have to prompt it well Yeah. To get a good output. Even then, I think you need an individual over the top that knows the audience, that knows the market.

So it might be able to get you a decent draft. Yeah.

And the Speeding up the prep work almost.

Speeding up the prep work.

If it had good data, and by data, I don't just mean numbers, but, you know, if it had good information in the back end

I think it could get you a good draft. I think you'd still then need a your your client expert over the top to to assess that and also check its accuracy.

So I do think there's there's an element of speeding up existing work.

Whether or not we can talk about it replacing an individual at any point, I think probably not yet.

Yeah.

But, again, it's like any system, it's all dependent on what information is in it, and the better that information and the cleaner that information and the more up to date that information, the better the output Yeah.

Like with any system. So we could get to the point where it's it's far improved from where it is at the moment.

Just listening to you speak then, it makes me think that perhaps the way that it's gonna be where it's gonna become the most useful is when you've got, you know, your your your public kind of AI tools to to support, but then you can have your own proprietary organisation, you know, dimensional pure insight which you can then pull and combine the two. And I guess when we get to that point, maybe that's when we'll start to see that next level of acceleration perhaps.

That has actually already started. I went to an event last week actually, and a couple of organisations were saying they've brought their own AI tool in house.

Right, right, fascinating.

So they've managed to bring it in with the security constraints that IT are comfortable with, So it's only working off their own data Wow.

And their own insight. So initially, it's not gonna be very useful because it's limited what it's what what it's got information it has available to it. But I think the more they can feed it the better the insight they can take out of it. Yeah.

Now some of those organizations were using it to try and build better responsive chatbots Okay.

Which is obviously not not where asset management would play necessarily. No. But I think it's more the principle of, you know, can you bring it in house? Can you feed it your own data that's good and accurate and that you're happy with? And can it learn an output and the output become more more accurate for you?

Yes.

And I think you can get there, but I I don't think there's many organizations that are that far down the route No. To to to be able to tell you how it's working.

No. And it probably comes back to the point that you made about trying to trying to identify something first that you want it to help with, want it to solve, and don't try and bore the ocean. Just start on one thing, get it working in that area, and then and then evolve.

I think that would be that would be key because if you can pick one thing that's maybe not working so well, it's very easy to test whether it becomes more accurate, whether it becomes an easier process, whether it helps your business, and then you can move on to the next thing and the next thing.

So as mentioned that the company we were talking to, I think, had been using it for educating the chatbots to become, you know, better able to answer the queries and the questions, which seems like a very sensible place to start because it is an automated response. The person on the other end knows they're getting an automated response.

And if you can make those automated response really accurate, that's gonna save time and improve customer satisfaction. Yeah. So it does seem like a logical place to start, but for other organizations, you could probably choose, you know, another sort of smaller area and start there and and test and learn.

I I worked on a project many moons ago for an asset manager, and we were tracking the calls that were coming into the call center, and they were going through an evolution as an asset manager, and it was it was very labor intensive just going through all these transcripts of different calls. So I can see something like that where you could come in and you could, you know, again, looking for insights quickly through huge volumes of data that it may be it may be of use.

Absolutely. In a call center. Yeah. The fact that all of that is tracked and the fact you've got background data on the types of questions that have come in or the types of queries or the problems, I think that is a great place to start.

You've got a whole raft of information that can be fed in Yeah.

That that a tool could learn from.

And it's being that that data is probably being underutilized at the moment, isn't it?

Well, it's stored for a reason, but, like, one individual trying to go in and pull pull out insights from that. Yeah. One, very very difficult, and two, a massive job. Yeah. So I think that would be a perfect place to start if if you had something similar.

Thank you so much for sitting down with us today. That's flown by, that that chat.

Thanks for having me.

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